Q&A With Author John Inazu On His New Book ‘Learning To Disagree’
I recently had the privilege of sitting down with John Inazu to discuss his most recent book “Learning to Disagree: The Surprising Path to Navigating Differences with Empathy and Respect.”
Inazu is the Sally D. Danforth Distinguished Professor of Law and Religion at Washington University in St. Louis and a senior Fellow with Interfaith America. He is also the author of three other books, including “Confident Pluralism: Surviving and Thriving Through Deep Difference. In Learning to Disagree,” Inazu offers practical insights into the art of respectful disagreement without dehumanizing others.
Structured around an academic year of teaching law, the book explores monthly themes such as "Where is the Line Between Wrong and Evil?" and draws on real-world experiences and legal case studies to discuss empathy in disagreement, trust across differences and challenging assumptions while holding onto one's sacred truths.
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The book is relevant for everyday community interactions and shaping moral imaginations for political engagement during election years and beyond.
This interview has been edited for space and clarity.
Chelsea Langston Bombino: “Learning to Disagree” is your fourth book, John. Can you share the main premise of the book, its primary audience, and why it matters at this particular moment in our country?
Inazu: The book is like a glimpse of law school for those who may not actually go to law school. It teaches skills and dispositions that help people disagree better and more charitably, and argue better. It's aimed at a broad audience and is designed to be accessible so that readers of different educational levels can engage with it.
Bombino: You've structured the book as a school year, which seems timely considering the current interest in cycles of the year in both religious and non-religious communities. Was there a specific inspiration for this format, and how do you think it contributes to the book's message?
Inazu: The structure evolved organically as I tried to tell a story that would engage people who are reading less and have shorter attention spans. The academic year format allowed me to develop themes related to trusted relationships and spaces, which are crucial for engaging in hard discussions about disagreements. The classroom setting is a great example of how trust can be built over time, allowing for deeper exploration of difficult issues.
Bombino: What personal experiences or moments in your life inspired you to write this book?
Inazu: I think the first thing was that this started coming together at the height of Covid when we were social distancing and not seeing anyone, and I think it was the felt experience of isolation that first made me realize this was what I had to write about. That's what first comes to mind. There are other stories from the classroom or from my life that fill in the content, but the original motivation was sitting there by myself in the middle of the pandemic, thinking, this is not how we're made to be, and if we're going to figure out a viable alternative, we need to figure out something other than yelling at each other.
Bombino: In the very first chapters of your book, you delve into how to apply empathy to the criminal justice system. Is there a particular story that stands out to you in terms of thinking about empathy in criminal cases?
Inazu: Teaching criminal law isn’t just sitting around talking about big ideas. We explore these awful fact patterns where human beings have done awful things to other human beings, and we have this real desire for justice. Let me offer an example not in the book. One of the first criminal law classes I teach involves a road rage case where an older man shoots a teenage kid. The trial is about whether it's murder or self-defense. This case is one of the reasons I went to law school. The victim was a friend of mine. And I start with this case because I want to show my students that we can talk about hard, complicated issues that are also deeply personal. That's something I'm also trying to display in this book.
Bombino: It's interesting how your personal experiences shape your teaching. How do you balance legal arguments and empathy in your work?
Inazu: We're training students to be in pressure-filled situations and be professionals, but at the same time, to maintain their humanity. In criminal law, you realize justice is not as clear-cut as you thought, and human justice will never fully remedy human injustice. We're left with all kinds of oddities and challenges as we try to administer some proxy of justice through the law. That's the story of criminal law. We’re trying to navigate these complexities and still hold onto empathy in legal discourse.
Bombino: You mention an arc involving a young woman named Jennifer Chang who approaches you for an independent study on Augustine and misogyny. You describe your initial internal dialogue as not very charitable towards her, yet you eventually become more understanding and engage with her throughout the semester. This story seems to reflect a personal growth in how you handle disagreements and assumptions. Can you share more about how this experience influenced your approach to storytelling and personal reflections in this book compared to your previous works?
Inazu: Yes, I'm really glad you noticed that character and her story. It was actually a last-minute addition to the narrative, but it has resonated with many readers. This particular story, while being a composite, reflects a truth about my own growth and the ongoing learning process I'm in. I want this book to convey that we're all in this journey together, trying to figure out how to navigate our differences constructively.
Working with students on independent studies brings out the complexities of teaching. It's an intense experience that's not easily scalable – you're dedicating a lot of time to just one student. But it's also incredibly rewarding. You get to witness the evolution of their thoughts and their growth in awareness. However, sometimes, you encounter students who seem set in their ideas and resistant to new perspectives.
I also want to touch on the importance of being open to learning from our students. My experience with Jennifer was a process of mutual learning. It was a reminder for me to be aware of my own assumptions and limitations when interacting with others, especially in a teaching context. This story and others in the book are meant to highlight the ongoing journey of learning to disagree for all of us, including me: the importance of being open to growth and change, and the rich, though sometimes challenging, experiences that teaching and engaging with different perspectives bring.
Bombino: I want to delve deeper into the religious themes in your book. While it's not explicitly for a religious audience, it seems open to resources from various faith traditions. Can you talk about how you navigated the inclusion of religious content?
Inazu: Navigating religious content was a key consideration in writing this book. My aim was to create a space where readers from diverse religious backgrounds could engage with the material and apply their own faith perspectives to the discussions. For example, while discussing the challenges of disagreement within religious communities, I wanted to highlight the importance of grace and patience, which are virtues emphasized in many faith traditions.
Bombino: You also touch upon contemporary issues like COVID-19 and their impact on religious institutions. How do you see these events shaping the conversation around religion and law?
Inazu: The pandemic brought to the forefront several issues related to religion and law, especially concerning religious freedom and public health. The diverse responses of religious institutions to shutdown orders and the legal battles that ensued are indicative of the complex relationship between religion and the state. These events have sparked important conversations about the role of religion in public life and the legal protections afforded to religious practices.
Bombino: Lastly, you share personal experiences with your church community. How do these experiences reflect broader themes of religious engagement and disagreement?
Inazu: My personal experiences with my church community reflect the broader themes of religious engagement and the challenges of disagreement within faith communities. They underscore the need for open dialogue and the willingness to engage with differing perspectives. These experiences highlight the importance of fostering a culture of understanding and empathy within religious communities to navigate disagreements constructively.
Bombino: Your book seems to offer a valuable resource for fostering dialogue within and between religious communities. How do you hope it will be used in these contexts?
Inazu: I hope the book will serve as a tool for encouraging meaningful dialogue within and between religious communities. By providing examples and guiding principles, I aim to help individuals and groups navigate disagreements with empathy and respect, while remaining true to their faith convictions. My goal is for the book to contribute to building stronger, more understanding communities that can thrive amidst diversity and difference.
Chelsea Langston Bombino is a believer in sacred communities, a wife and a mother. She serves as a program officer with the Fetzer Institute and a fellow with the Center for Public Justice.