Religion Unplugged's Full Conversation With Alabama's 'Fifth Girl' Sarah Collins Rudolph

Listen to our full podcast with Sarah Collins Rudolph here (Apple, Stitcher, Spotify). You can find Rudolph’s new book coauthored with Tracy David Snipe, “The 5th Little Girl: Soul Survivor of the 16th Street Baptist Church Bombing (The Sarah Collins Rudolph Story)” here.

Mattie: Welcome to the Religion Unplugged podcast. I’m Mattie Townson, and here with us is Sarah Collins Rudolph. 

Sarah is the Alabama church bombing survivor also known as Birmingham’s fifth girl. In 1963, she survived the Ku Klux Klan attack on 16th Street Baptist Church, a rallying point for Civil Rights activists. Four little girls waiting for the Sunday morning service died in the dynamite blast, including Sarah’s older sister, but Sarah, in the same foyer, survived. 

The FBI charged four Klansmen two years after the attack but prosecutions didn’t begin until 1977.

Sarah thank you for being here. Can you take us back to before the bombing. What made 16th Street Baptist special to your family?

Sarah: Before the bombing, we were living in an area called Smithville and we walked to church on Sunday and we were talking to church that morning. It was my sister Janie and I and Addie Mae, while we were walking, we were just playing as children do. Janie had a little purse and we were throwing it and catching it like a ball and we were laughing all the way. When we arrived, that’s when we went down in the basement to freshen up and Janie came down to the basement but her class was upstairs so when she went back upstairs we just stayed in the ladies’ lounge and while we were in the ladies lounge, Cynthia and Carol came to use the restroom. When they came out, one of the girls walked up to Addie and Addie asked her to tie the sash on her dress. When she reached her hands out to tie it, we were all watching. All a sudden, I heard a loud noise. A great sound. It was real loud. When I heard the sound, I called Addie but she didn’t answer. All a sudden, I hear someone outside saying, “I’m at a bombing at 16th Street Church!” I found out he was one of the deacons later on. When he heard the noise, he took the steps down and realized that one of the steps had been blown away. He jumped down and he saw me standing in the crater and picked me up and brought me where everyone else was out there waiting. 

M: Thank you for sharing. After the attack, how did the community change?

S: The community, most of the folks, were afraid. A lot of people I knew left the city of Birmingham. People would fear that another bomb might go off. The community changed a lot because a lot of them left — their mother took them out of town to stay out with relatives. 

M: How did your family grieve and heal after such a tragedy?

S: My mother was a very praying lady. She just prayed and asked God to protect us. We were the type of family that wanted to leave Birmingham but we didn’t have relatives outside of Birmingham that we could stay with. We just stayed and my mother prayed and kept God in everything we did. 

M: In your situation, do you believe that forgiveness is possible, and how so?

S: I know forgiveness is very important because God told us to forgive those that do us wrong. We had to forgive those Klansmen because unforgiveness brings a lot of sickness upon you. It took me a while, but I had to forgive them. It just took me a while to forgive but I did eventually.

M: How would you say your faith helped you in forgiving the Klansmen? 

S: My faith helped me a lot because I had a lot of trauma and fear from that bomb. My faith helped me to overcome it because I got prayer for me for all of the trauma and all of the nervousness that I had from the bombing. God began to heal me and I was able to talk about it because it took me a long time to really even talk about what had happened to me. 

M: What advice would you give to people who say they’re just not able to forgive?

S: I would tell them to forgive people that hurt them because that’s what’s in the Word of God. He says that if we don’t forgive others when we come to him, he won’t forgive us for our sins. That’s a very important message in the Word of God. We’ve got to forgive because unforgiveness brings on a lot of sicknesses and we don’t want to go through life sick. Sometimes it’s kind of hard but we have to pray about forgiving others that trespass against us. 

M: What have you done — in your home state of Alabama — to demand justice for Addie Mae?

S: I tried to get restitution and an apology — first an apology and then restitution. They’re still working on that now. That’s what I have been trying to do because the city of Birmingham and the state were all involved and I felt like they were responsible for the bombing because we had people in office, like Wallace and O’Conner, who were saying all of this hate in the city of Birmingham. 

M: In your opinion, was the governor’s apology enough? 

S: No, it wasn’t enough. I have suffered a lot in my life, and it wasn’t enough for me because, after the bombing, they didn’t give me any counseling or restitution since they were involved in it. I felt like it was time for them to give me restitution because they kept siding with the Klu Klux Klan because all of them were involved in that. 

M: What are your thoughts on restorative justice?

S: We have to think about what they did — we were just Black people trying to get our rights just like the Whites had their rights. What they did against us — it was wrong. You don’t really have prejudice because of the fact that we are of different colors — we all deserve our rights. We deserve our voting rights and our civil rights but they tried to keep it from us simply because of our color. That’s wrong. They shouldn’t have done it the way that they did. They always looked at us as being lower than what they are but God created us all equal. 

M: When you say restitution, what kind of restitution do you want from the situation?

S: I want restitution because I suffered a lot. I lost one of my eyes and I almost lost both of them. My left eye still has glass in it and they had to remove my right eye and put a prosthetic in it. I have suffered from the age 12 when I was just starting off in life. I want a million — that’s what I want.

M: Could you talk about the situation with your eye? How does it still affect you and your career today?

S: When I lost my eye and I got older, it was jobs I couldn’t get. I wanted to be a surgeon. That was taken away from me. The bomb shook me up so much, it took a lot out of my body and my mind. People didn’t understand that the bomb took away knowledge and you can’t go out and do those things anymore. At first, I was an A student. After the bombing, my grades dropped down to D’s and F’s. I just couldn’t think like I used to. 

M: What kind of progress do you think the country has made for racial equality since your sister’s death?

S: Very little progress because we’re still getting treated the way we were getting treated in the 60s. All these things you see now are coming back out because we have more racial inequality. We have a lot of racists coming out — different groups, and not just the Klu Klux Klan. It quieted down for a little while but they’re showing themselves, wanting to be above and wanting us to go back into slavery. We’re not going back. God’s not going to let us go back. God made us and He put us on this Earth to be united with each other, not to be separate. God is going to have to straighten this out because too many people are still looking at Blacks and thinking they can kill us. God’s going to straighten it out. 

M: Have you faced any of this sort of treatment in Birmingham recently? 
S: No I haven’t had any treatment like that. One time, when I was young, I remember when a guy called me a ‘n*gga’ and I didn’t like that. I wanted to do something about it. I was passing through the park and he asked me if I had a cigarette and I said ‘I don’t smoke,’ and he said, ‘I’m not talking to you n*gga.’ That was the worst thing he could’ve done because he didn’t have to call me that. 

M: What do you think is our way forward as a country and what are you hoping for under the new Biden administration?

S: I like that Biden said that we were going to be united — that’s what I’m hoping to see. Our other president was pulling us so far apart and if we’re going to make it in this world, we’re going to have to be united and stop looking at color and start loving one another. I just hope and pray that things will go back to being equal instead of trying to keep us separated.

M: What policies specifically have you embraced from the Biden administration?

S: He’s trying to help all people. He’s trying to help all races. A long time ago, they said, ‘black get back, brown stick around, and white you’re right.’ He’s not looking at that. He wants us all to get along with each other and show love because that’s what the Bible wants us to do. He wants us to love one another. I feel like Biden wants to help all people and that’s what I’m looking for. 

M: How would you compare your experience during the Civil Rights movement to today’s racial justice movements like Black Lives Matter? 

S: During our time, we had to march, just like they’re doing now. It’s no different. We march and try to get our rights and the Black Lives movement is doing the same thing. Now, the cops are coming against us. They came against us then, they come against us now. Not much has changed. The only thing about it that has changed is that people are getting away with it. Cops are killing Blacks and getting nothing but a pat on the back. That’s wrong. They should stand and get prosecuted just like they’re supposed to. They shouldn’t get off on killing us like that. 

M: Have you been directly involved with the Black Lives Matter Movement at all? 

S: I marched here in the streets when she came to Birmingham. We marched for her right downtown in Birmingham.

M: How are you working within and outside your community in Birmingham to understand and embrace reconciliation within the church?

S: Right now, I just attend church and just learn about God and how He wants us to live. That’s what my church believes in. We believe in the Word. The Word of God will stand when the world’s on fire. God’s Word will continue to stand. We live in that. We don’t hold any hate. We try to love everybody and treat everybody with kindness. 

M: Has your old church done anything to give you any reconciliation or restitution since the bombing?

S: No. The church, our church, 16th Street Baptist Church, didn’t do anything because they were bombed and had to have the church rebuilt. They haven’t done anything. 

M: How do you want to continue Addie Mae’s legacy through your life and get justice for her?

S: For one thing, I want people to know that those girls didn’t die in vain. They didn’t die in vain. Because of their death, the Civil Rights Bill was passed, and voting rights were passed. They lived a short life but I do thank God that their lives were not taken in vain. 

M: Where all will you be speaking this year — I know your book just came out. Can you talk about that?

S: Right now I’m not speaking anywhere but I have some dates on my calendar for Black History Month. I’m not going out in person like I used to do before the virus came but I just got some Zoom meetings for Black History Month. 

M: How do you think Addie would feel about today’s political climate and the progress, and lack of, racial justice since her death? 

S: I don’t think she would be satisfied. I don’t think none of the girls would be satisfied. The way things are going so slow for justice for Blacks — they wouldn’t be satisfied about that. All of them was some smart girls and if they were here, they wouldn’t be satisfied at all. 

M: What do you think that they would want to see from the United States and from the people in it?

S: I would believe that they would want people to be united together because united we stand, and divided we fall. Right now, we have a government that is divided. We have Republicans and Democrats but if we could get together and do things together, it would be a better country. Democrats want to help the poor and Republicans want to help the Whites — they’re just not ready to unite.

Mattie Townson is an editorial intern for Religion Unplugged and a journalism student at The King's College in New York City. She is the Managing Editor for her school’s newsmagazine, The Empire State Tribune Magazine.